Spotlight of Patrick Reilly of

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Hello, this is Jane Gardner of finding your purpose, and today we’re on a mission to create awareness that being self-aware of your personality and your purpose in life, can you make you more intentional in your actions and bring you more success in your business, your relationships and your life? So let’s go. Welcome, everybody. This is Jane Gardner of Finding Your Purpose TV, and today I’m so excited to have another purpose driven business person on Spotlight for finding your purpose TV.

And today it is Patrick Reilly. Welcome, Patrick. Patrick is an executive coach and consultant with more than twenty five years of experience supporting leaders. And I’m really excited because I love talking about leadership and he’s looking to develop their executive presence so people listen and learn when they speak. So welcome. Patrick, I just want to say hello. Hello, Patrick. Nice to see you. How are you?

Yes, it’s a great day. It looks wonderful there. That’s for sure.

Patrick, I’d like to know how you got to the journey where you are now talking about leadership.

That would be great. Sure, you know, it’s very interesting, I sort of fell into it to a certain extent, I had a business opportunity that that showed up many years ago and I was invited to work on what at the time was an extremely large organizational change and consulting project. And it was it was really the biggest thing at the time. And it was a lot, quite frankly, I would say I was in way over my head, but they needed resources and apparently I was a quick learner. So that’s how literally how I got started. And the other thing I would say that I think pertains to our conversation is that even though at the time what we did was called organizational consulting, it had a lot of the elements of what we call executive coaching today. So it was kind of a blended situation. And what I would say then and what I would say now and certainly you can see it today in many ways in our current world, is how much impact quality leadership has and that when you have a quality leader or leaders, things get done, things get done. Well, the world moves ahead. People have a better, better lives in front of them. And when you have ineffective leadership, things don’t go so well. The problems become worse. They multiply. And so to me, when you have someone who is leading an organization or leading pieces of an organization and when they set a good direction that people can follow, want to follow, are excited about following, you can really get a lot of good stuff done, whether it’s in the government, whether it’s in industry, whether it’s in business, whether it’s in the nonprofit arena and anything, any place in our societies where it requires more than an individual to get things done. Good leadership makes a very, very big difference. And so I’m about making a difference and helping others to make a difference. And I really find myself ideally suited as being a catalyst, if you would, to helping leaders move themselves ahead and become better at what they do. So then does that answer your question,

yeah, that’s that’s great, that’s so exciting because I love talking about leadership. I’ll just tell you a quick story in that you would probably be able to know the answer to. When I was working as a drafter, I worked in an engineering firm and it was a pretty crippled environment. And I was wondering if you have any stories on how you helped leaders to do help. I mean, it’s not just a leader. It’s it’s the whole environment and the team and the landscape there would be wonderful if you could give us a story or two or.

OK, well, you know, interestingly enough, a subset of what it is that I do is I actually have a niche specialty that I practice sometimes where I work with leaders who are very good at what they do, but are not very good into relating to other people. And so there’s a there’s a number of occasions where I’ve worked with people and I have one story at the top of my head. I was working with this gentleman. He was a very effective salesperson in the technology space and he had been recruited to another company. His boss had moved there. And so he used people die for killer salespeople and he knew how to sell. He also had developed an expertise in the industry vertical that the new company had moved into. So he was brought in and he just didn’t know how to talk to people in the new environment. And in fact, the very first meeting that I went to with his team at the first break, I was shocked to see a number of people scurry outside and it was warm out and they picked up their cell phones and I asked them what they were doing and they were all calling their people because of some things that he’d said and done in the meeting. And even though he got results, he got them in a way that really alienated people. And in particular, he just didn’t know how to adjust to the culture in the new organization, which was much more team oriented consensus building. And I remember him saying to me quite a number of times, he said, well, this used to work where it was before. He says, I’m a senior vice president. I figure things out and make a decision and boom, we go. And he says here, it drives me nuts because I get that. And then I have to go to my bosses meeting and I have other PR executive vice presidents and they started asking me questions about this. And can you do that? And why can’t we do that? And it’s it’s driving me out of my mind. But I’ll never forget the day that. And so he is his job was on the line. So I’ll never forget the day that we were having a meeting at a hotel restaurant just outside of Chicago. And I’ll have to say this in a polite way, because I’m not going to use some of the words he used. They’re not in the dictionary. But he said to me, he said, look, you said you mean to tell me we’ve talked to all these people on my team. You interview people, you use these assessments. And you mean to tell me that if I start to talk to my employees the way that I talk to my wife and daughter, that that’s it. They want me to do that. If I do that and I talk like that. And so we went through this about three different times. He gave me this look and I said, yes, Mark. That’s correct. And he knew because I’d been around him and I’d seen him talk to his wife and daughter. And he was very polite, very respectful, solicitous. And finally he looks at me and he goes, You’re not kidding me, are you? And I said, No, I’m not kidding. You only did. But finally, he kind of got after the third time that that was it. And. Now, this part is my imagination to say this specifically, this gentleman is of color, he’s African-American. I still remember his face in my mind turning red when that happened. Now, that’s not possible. It’s not physiologically possible. But what happened is he had this moment of epiphany and realization that. He knew how to do something. He knew how to communicate very well. He knew how to do that with his wife and daughter. I will say one part of his family and what he didn’t realize and didn’t know how to do was to talk in the same respectful way to the people who worked for his team. And it blew his mind and he was totally capable of it. He just didn’t see that he needed to do that and that his world changed and the world of his team and the world in that part of his company changed as a result of the work we did. And so he went from being a leader that people wanted to get rid of, were irritated with or upset with, had a lot of, I’ll say, nonconstructive conversations with and about when he got the idea and he started to practice speaking respectfully, the world that he inhabited changed, and he became a much more effective and impactful leader who understood his his purpose as a leader, much better. So that’s one that comes to mind.

Well, that’s that’s amazing. Well, now I’m pretty sure I mean, it’s quite a compelling moment.

Yes, of course. I did confess that. I do remember his face turned red, which I know is possible, but it was a signature moment. I think he realized that.

That’s excellent. So so what is your process, your three areas of how you talk to get the leader to start getting the team to work together with them and that kind of thing? I know, because it’s all different for many different processes, so it’d be great.

So there’s a number of things is that one thing at inception is that all leaders need to do some work and figure out what’s their leadership style, because it’s not a one size fits all kind of thing. And I look like I look a clearly Caucasian male. I’ve got a few air-to-air on the tires, et cetera. I’ve worked in certain places, so which by definition means I’ve not worked in other places. I’ve had a certain background and growing up. So I have to be myself and bring what I know forward. Right. So the first thing is I have to figure out my style is and the second thing I would say is that people are always looking for direction, if you want to call it vision from their leader, which is how do we do things here? How are you going to do things? And if we follow the lead that you set, what’s the payoff? What are we going to get both personally and professionally from working with you? And have you created a vision and strategy for moving forward that we want to follow? And that’s going to make a difference. Most of us want to do work that makes a difference. We want to solve problems. We want to help people. If you work in a technology company building a new product that people think is cool, want to pay for us is one thing. If you work in a biotech company, those people are driven primarily by two things that they really want to advance science and they want to build products that help patients. So it’s your mother, my mother, your aunt, et cetera. They want to do that. If you’re in the construction business, you want to put together a building that people will use and feel good about using. Right. So if you build a hospital and you do a good job of that, you built a place that helps the doctors and the medical staff take patients and help them.


So people want to be engaged in work where they feel like they’re learning things. They’re using their best self and they’re making some they’re making a difference and they’re making things happen. And that’s what turns people on. So it’s up to the leader to think about what is it? Here’s a simple way of learning to think about it. What are the tasks that we are responsible for as a team? What is it my boss or the organization has given us to do? And what are the capabilities we have to get those tasks done? What’s the gap between the two and how do we attend to that by either importing additional capabilities, building some new skills and capabilities so that we have the right skills and capabilities relative to the tasks. And then part of my work is as the leader is getting the team, the right team in place and getting the team to gel. So they work together and then providing this direction forward so that people seize the phrase that people use a lot today. Today’s North Star is I have to articulate or depict the North Star for the teams so they know and go, wow, that’s cool or that’s interesting. That really looks like something I want to work towards and work on. And that’s a great use of my time and energy. So that’s what I think has to do. Yeah.

Yeah, definitely. Knowing what the vision is and what direction you’re going really helps, I think, for a team and so that people don’t have motivation. And yeah, you have to motivate them for sure and respect them, otherwise they won’t. So I’m going to give you a tough question because I am going to talk about the pandemic. And there are a lot of companies in crises and they’re all scared. And as a executive coach and consultant, I’d like to find out what you feel you could do to help a company, because, of course, they’ll have to be hiring, be switching and et cetera, et cetera. So it’s quite an unusual time.

But I have to ask, OK, well, you would not be the first person who’s asked me that question if it is ever present at the moment. Right. And so so the thing that I hear mostly is people say, well, here’s part of the problem. One is it’s hard to be connected now. Right. There’s so much noise around and tumult that there’s so many things. So there is the pandemic and then there’s the economy that’s faltered. And they have a lot of people who are out of work. And you have a lot of fear and anxiety. And people report that they’re way more exhausted than usual. So there’s so much stress that people are fatigued so that that’s a piece. But what I hear are two or three prevailing themes, if you would. One is around connection. So many of us are not working together anymore. We’re working remotely or some people are at the office and some people are not.

And so how do you go about getting connected? Because almost no work is done today except by a team. Right. So you have to how do you get them connected? And then if you if you reference the Google study from a number of years ago, once you do that, how do you create an atmosphere, ambience of psychological safety? Because that based on the data or the research, that’s the single most important factor to team productivity. People have to feel safe so they can speak up, ask questions, maybe say something that’s maybe other people disagree with or may seem as a dumb idea. Right. So they have to be able to do that. The second piece is that there’s a real drop in production here that not just from the leaders, but which surprised me is from the members of their teams. They just don’t feel that they can get as much done. Now, some people are more productive working on their own. Some people are not. However, at the end of the day, if in order to get a product out the door to deliver a service, I have to work with you, Jane, and 12 other people just being productive on my own, is not it? So we have to find a way to bring the resources together and create the product or service in the delivery system to make that happen. So that’s a that’s a big piece. And then the third piece that I hear is that people have lost the edge that they have for innovation, that people are not able to quite as easily or quickly think about what’s next, what can we build, how do we do that? What’s the next kind of food or application or delivery service that people are going to want and that so many people are limited in that capacity right now. Now, the flip side of that is, ironically, there’s always someone who profits from a downside. So a couple of things. You see that zoom, which they’re doing gangbusters and peloton and home exercise equipment are doing great. And also, you see, the hardware business is is doing fabulous. Right, because people are just. Well, I. Told you earlier, I’m doing some painting on my house right now, but that’s a big business and another one I have a client that’s in the RV business, and believe it or not, that is one of the most booming businesses in North America at the moment because people are not able to take vacations or they’re more concerned about it and they still want to take vacation. So that’s a way to take a vacation, get out of the house, get away from home and be safe within your own four walls, if you would. So, yeah, that’s that’s wow. I mean, I think I think all they have to do is get you to speak about what’s next and innovation. And they should be getting going on that because I think a lot of things are changing. But as you know, if you look at historic studies of innovation, there are a lot of it comes because there’s the right set up or the context for it. Right. If you don’t have the right people with the right skills and experience and you don’t create an atmosphere or climate where they can think and prosper individually, collectively, there’s no innovation. Right. And the world moves ahead because we’re always looking for the next thing. It’s just in human nature. And well, case in point, if I think about the very first Apple computer I had and the IT and the tool that I’m talking to you on today, there’s there’s it’s like light years difference is what happens and what can happen and all that sort of stuff. So where once we get to a certain level with a with a product or service, we want the next thing felt like that. So that is that is the one answer. Yeah, that’s wonderful.

I didn’t even think of connections being the important thing right now. I do know that obviously a lot of people are have certain companies that are doing well. But I think every company should and should get some advice from you in terms of what you know, so they don’t get stuck wondering what to cover everyone. But because it’s just like you, I got one hundred and sixty eight hours a week.

OK, well, I think I think we’ll maybe talk about your your offer to everybody. If you don’t mind. I’m going to put the screen up and this is wonderful that you’re here. I have a feeling you’re going to be really your website’s going to be just amazing and talking about all these challenges we’re going to have in the next few months. And you were mentioning that you are interested in free 30 minute consult. You’re welcome to look who’s welcome to talk to you about that.

Is this anyone who’s an executive leader who is thinking that they may need to develop some insight to see things differently or better develop some new perspectives to to move their organization forward and something that we haven’t touched on? I just. Yeah, please to is to me, it’s an essential element. Here is what I call a development of executive presence in that. If I want you to listen to me, if I want my team to listen to me, if I want a number of vendors and suppliers and regulators and other other people in the marketplace to listen to me, I have to find a way to bring myself forward that you want to listen and that a large number of people want to listen to what I have to say. If I want to have impact as a leader. And it’s not always the only element, but it is the sole element. Excuse me, but it is always an element of what it takes to get a wider audience of people to pay attention and to listen to me. And so I spent a lot of time working and studying with my mentor in this area. His name is Bob Sadler, as well as other folks. And what I found is that there are three core components that a leader has to develop for her or himself in order to. Increase their gravitas to be someone that people listen to or want to listen to, and so let me articulate that one clearly is in the language that you used. So it’s in the diction and the pace of what you say. So you have to be able to say what you’re saying in a way that the audience can understand it. And you have to be clear, you can’t use too many words, but you have to tell the full story. So it’s about. The structure and the pacing of what you say so that people want to hear what’s being said. Second piece. Has to do with your body and how you use that, because a lot of our enthusiasm and energy comes through our body, even though now most of that is happening through video. Right. Or some some tool or other. And you’re not seeing me in person. I’m not seeing you in person. There’s still something about energy which that’s something clearly that actors learn to to to use. Right. You learn how to tell a story, if you would, through your physical body. And the third piece is, is there kind of close? I see them as different. Is is some of it is the the way you use your body to deliver a message and the energy that comes from you in the delivering of that. And just if I can make fun, people sometimes will will mock people from certain cultures because they talk so much with their hands that it’s distracting. On the other hand, when you just sit there and nothing moves, it’s distracting in a different way. So a big piece of using myself is in a way that others want to listen or will want to listen is the words how I say them. Are they pronounced clearly and is it said at a pace where you can digest and ingested? And the second piece is the language of my body to talk about that. And the physical piece of it. So those are the three. So that’s a lot of what it is that we have to work on in order to get people to. If you would, listen to a news story or a revised story so that they want to pay attention and follow our lead. Oh, wow. That’s a big piece of it. Does it make sense? Yeah, that makes sense. And I didn’t think of it as being that important. But you’re right, a lot of times people ignore the leader when they’re when they don’t have a presence.

So I didn’t think of that. I’ll think about it just like some some newscaster. And some of them are like, wow, she’s interesting.

And other people like her. But I’m changing the channel. Or certain actors and actresses, they get they they’re in front of us, whether it’s on stage or on video or TV. And they draw us in by what they say, how they interact with people, their movement of their body. And that’s part of what we have to learn to do so that people want to hear the story we have. Really, that’s that’s it. And another aspect of it then, in terms of the words is, do you have a story? That people want to hear that makes sense to them, like the story I told you about the gentleman who worked with a number of years ago who was just wasn’t very respectful to his team or his staff and that people were not following him. And so he had to learn how to speak respectfully. So that’s a story that depicts for people what we’re talking about. And it’s in this telling of the story and the telling it of, well, that draws people in and they go, huh? Let me listen to that guy, Patrick. He’s got he’s got some ideas worthy of paying attention to. Right.

Right. So, yeah, I didn’t think of that component for leadership. So that’s that’s very interesting. Critical, isn’t it?

And yes, I still have to whether if I’m a lawyer, I have to be a good lawyer. If I’m a software developer, I have to be good at that. If I’m an engineer, it builds hospitals. I have to be good at that. So that is necessary for me to get the job. But those domain skills or expertise are not sufficient for me to be the quality leader of the people who were doing the job right. I would call it evolution of an individual as a leader. Right. So you wouldn’t hire me, for example, to to to make chicken sausages for you if I didn’t know something about that and I had demonstrated some expertise. And then you’d been at a barbecue somewhere and you said, wow, those are the best sausages I’ve ever had. Who makes them your friends? And they all go to Patrick Riley’s sausage house. That’s where you get them. And if you wanted to learn more about that, you would talk to me, because I would obviously have some expertise in that. But if I then said, wow, these are good and I want to build a company around quality organic chicken sausages. My role has to change over time because I have to set a direction, as I said before, I have to get the resources. I have to know about how to build a business, what you do, where the money comes from, how to manage the money. And then I have to figure out who are the people I have to hire, what positions or roles do I need for them to play, and then how do I get them to gel or coalesce or work together so that we have an efficient and effective operation? And then. If it’s a business, it’s not enough for me to just sell my chicken sausages to you and your five friends, I’ve got to make it much bigger in order for it to be economically viable for me and and all the people that work for me.

So, yeah, you’re obviously hungry. Yeah, I can always, always about.

But I just I do want to mention and have you express I like the idea of yourself calling yourself anethnographer, because I think that’s really important in the culture of teams and to understand culture for sure.

So ethnography is what is is the study of culture. Right. And I say this all the time, right? So if you were to get me a little nice little airplane and drop me somewhere in the middle of China tomorrow, I would know immediately that I was in a different culture because the people would look different than I do. Right. And then also people, depending what most likely would be speaking Mandarin or some dialect thereof. And I’d go, oh, I’m I must be in China. Right. And that means by definition, that I’m not in Canada or the United States. And so the rules of the game or the norms of the culture are going to be different. The foods that people eat, the distances that people keep in public are different. The habits that are endemic to the culture are different than they would be in Canada or the United States, for example. Right. On the other hand, my opinion is that is located near Silicon Valley, outside of San Francisco, that if you plunk me into a tech company right in the morning and tech company B in the afternoon, the people might look very similar and most of them will be speaking in English and they’re building technical products. On the other hand, when you sit and observe, what you notice is that the rules of the game are very different. If you spend enough time. What how people say things, what? OK, it’s not OK who you talk to, how do you talk to people who are just as different as they would be between being in China or Canada? It’s just that. It’s a little more subtle, and so in order to be helpful as an executive coach or consultant, you actually have to become really good at what I call observational intelligence. That’s my own phrase. Interestingly, it’s made up, but essentially what it means is I have to be able to see hot. So when she says that. What does that mean here? How is that taken and how is that understood? I recall one time when I was introduced to the first time to work at a big health care organization, the gentleman who hired me, he stopped at the door and he said. Do you know about the nod and I said I looked and I was like, no, I thought, geez, I missed something here. And he says, Well, let me tell you about the nod. And he said, so the nod here in our organization means this, it means that you’re in a meeting with me or meeting with a bunch of us and everything’s great, Jane. That’s terrific, Frank. That’s really good, Coolio. OK, great. And then I walk out the door and I nod my head and then I make a derogatory comment. So the point being is that in that culture, not everything you see and hear is exactly what people think and feel.

So you have to be able to pick up on the disparity and get clarity about what people’s real thoughts and feelings are. So in order to help. A leader to effectively navigate in their environment. That’s a piece of what they have to touch on. And this is also, as I said to you earlier when we were talking, is is sort of a new aspect or component of my thinking is that for leaders to be really effective in understanding the culture and understanding the ethnography, I think there’s three core components that they have to know and understand and figure out how they work together. And those three things in my mind are one we’ve touched on, which is what are the what are the norms, attributes of the culture we’re in? What are the rules of the game here? Secondly, what are the politics at play in the organization? And I don’t necessarily mean that in a negative way, because I know that politics these days often has a negative meaning or connotation for folks. What does that mean? It means this. It means how do I talk to this person there to get things done? Do I have to go and speak to the people who report to her first and get them to sell her on this? Is it OK for me to speak up, given my role in a senior executive meeting or not? So to me, it’s how do I go about in influence and create impact that’s effective in this culture? So to me, that’s the politics of it. And then the third piece, if I want to be effective, is. How do I conduct myself? And the answer is fairly simple, as I say one thing and then I do that, but how do I behave in a way that engender trust? And so when cognizant of the culture, when I’m aware of the rules of the game of politics in my organization or the organization I’m in, and how do I influence and impact and then what do I do and say to build trust so that people follow me when I put those three together. Right. Triangle of power, I can be much more effective and influential as a leader. So to me. But you. You have to observe that it’s not something that you study in school, and so it requires a different kind of you could say, yes, there’s some components of emotional and social intelligence. But I also would say that I would add another element that I call observational intelligence that a leader has to develop so that she or he knows how to be successful to navigate the landscape there. That’s all right. It’s not easy being fully facetious, but. Yeah, Sam, you help. Yes, actually, they would not be getting their money’s worth when they are getting the value if I didn’t help them with that. So, yes, a big I mean, if you would, the two core components of the work that I do with leaders and there are other pieces with helping them to develop your executive presence and then also increasing their awareness and ability to apply the integration of the trust to the political landscape and the culture. So. And. That requires learning some new things and then engaging in deliberate practice, so you get better at that. So the more you do those things, you have more success more often. So you’re hitting the ball or in your court, you’re hitting the puck better. More often. My culture, yes. So I just won. One last question. Interesting question for the norms and the culture. And some sometimes it’s not working. And and so you try and assess that and then give the leader direction as to how to make it work. It better somehow because, I mean, you can’t always just go with a culture that’s there. You have to be able to improve it. I would think. Well, there’s actually two two questions there right now. One hand. I won’t say I read a book a long time ago where I thought I still remember that I was just a horrible book, but there were and I thought the author was unbelievably pompous. However. I learned something absolutely critical from it, which is this The culture of an organization is bigger than anyone. And even if you’re the new higher CEO, it is up to you to adjust and adapt to the culture because the culture is bigger. It’s been there longer. It’s heavy duty and it’s ingrained. OK, so it’s up to you now. On the other hand, many organizations realize that the culture that. So so that’s the first piece. And so, yes, as part of my coaching, it’s what’s the culture? And then so what do you have to do to to operate better within this? The other hand. Many organizations do need to change their culture because the culture they have is no longer quick enough or they don’t have the right kind of people or some of the things they do are no longer effective. So the long and short story of it is that, yes, many organizations need to change their culture. There are many consultants. That’s their primary business. But changing the culture of an organization is a long standing process. And depending upon whose data you look at, it could be anywhere from 10 to 30 years to fundamentally change the culture of an organization. So first thing is, if you want to be effective as leader, you’ve got to adjust to the culture there first and then you can begin to engage in a longer term process to change the culture so it’s more suitable to the world right now.

Case in point, you raised this question before, Jane, with the insertion of the some questions about the pandemic. But if you look at the world that we are in today, part of the problem that is the world has become infused with much, much more information than before. And it just is manufactured every day, but in voluminous amounts, you know, through the use of our technologies and such. And the speed of change is I can’t remember what the what the what the numeric is, but it’s way faster than it used to be. And so we are constantly learning. The world keeps changing. And so if you have an organization with a culture that’s like this and the world that you or the marketplace in the world you exist in is fundamentally quite different. Then you have to make adjustments over time, you have to grow the culture and change the culture, if you think back to the time before the Internet, how we got along and how we communicate, it is pretty dang different than it is today.

I mean, case in point in the world you and I are in at this moment without zoom or comparable tool, we wouldn’t be able to be having this conversation right now and creating a video where we would be able to do that, either that we could then put on the Internet. And many people who are not here in California or in Vancouver, Canada, they wouldn’t have access to this information. So the world has changed. And so. I’ve had to learn how to use Zoom. Obviously, you’ve had to learn how to zoom and those who want to get information from us will have to use YouTube, Roku, zoom, the Google meeting, blah, blah, yada, yada, yada. OK, so it’s one of the things I remember. I didn’t think of it in this way, but one of the main learning so much came from from tossing rocks on water, right. And so you learn to skip stones on water in a pond or a bay or the ocean or something. And you would hit and you try to get this bounce, bounce, bounce. And so you’d see the rock bounce or the pebble bounce a number of times. Right. And that’s a lot of what we we have to do now is we we have to learn how to continue to bounce pebbles as the world where. And so it’s like you and I are talking here. Right. And then this is going to go further and other people are going to be able to see this. Right. And they’ll gather some information and they’ll have some new thoughts. And so then the pebble hits the next place and then they bring that new set of ideas into their organization and into the people in their organization. And then that organization starts to bring that in to their marketplace. And then if we go in the other direction, the larger world, the leaders of countries change, priorities change. People don’t get along in country to country or they get along better. And so all that I’m doing here within my organization has to fit into the world. That’s changed. So it’s a little bit like you have to develop the facility to. As one of my teachers would say to both zoom in and zoom out, so you have to be able to drill into the details and then go out to look at the big picture. And actually, one of the things I say to my executive leaders all the time is that to be an effective leader and executive, you have to learn to use your mind like a camera lens. So you have to be able to zoom in and zoom out. And the real skill. Is to know when you change direction, when I’m too much in here, what do I see in here that tells me you’ve got to go out, buddy, and look at the big picture and see what’s happening. And when I’m out here, what am I seeing and hearing and observing that tells me. Now is the time to drill more into the details and get get get a little smaller. So that’s another piece.

That’s amazing. Thank you, Patrick. I have a couple of things to say about this subject.

Yes, you do, Patrick. And I think we’ll we’ll have you back for our leadership show and if you can, a few weeks, because I’ve learned so much today, I didn’t think that there was a possibility and how long it took for culturists in the office to change time. I’m hopeful that they have you helping them, that they will be able to adapt and change. So that’s a great analogy, too. I like the stone and stone skipping analogy so long as I took my childhood.

OK, that’s great. Thanks so much. That you really love.

Well, I love talking about leadership because of my experience. And so this is great. So I’ll be talking to you again, Patrick. Thank you.

And you might have noticed I have a little enthusiasm about. Yes, you do. I’ve learned so much today. I’m going to have to go get the transcript. Thank you. Bye bye. All right. Bye.

You can contact Patrick Riley for a free 30 minute consultation at Patrick at ResourcesinAction.Com. Thank you, Patrick, for a great interview. For more on finding your purpose, go to and you can find us on Roku at finding your purpose as well.

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